Showing posts with label religion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label religion. Show all posts

Tuesday, 3 April 2012

72 names of God

What are the 72 names of God ?


I asked myself the question " What are the 72 names of God ? " and kind of regretted it. I regretted asking myself about another mysterious thing about the number 72 because I knew then that i would be consumed by the need to know the answer. So I went seeking of enlightenment about the 72 Jewish names of their deity.

The Hebrew bible is more modernly referred to as the Tanakh. It differs from the Old Testament of the Christians in the ordering of the sacred manuscripts that make up the pre-Christian era of religion in Eurasia and parts of Africa and elsewhere.

The first five books of the Tanakh are exactly the same as the OT. These are the books or the Torah.

  1. Genesis
  2. Exodus - the 72 names of God of Kabbalah are found in 14: 19-20 in this book
  3. Leviticus
  4. Numbers
  5. Deuteronomy
The Torah is law.

The next section of the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh contains the works of prophets.  The Nevaiim is what the Hebrew called this second section of the Tanakh. The Nevaiim is broken down into 3 sections. The first section contains the gospels of the former prophets. The second section is the gospel of the Latter Day Prophets. The third section of the Nevaiim is the Book of Twelve.

The Nevi'im of the Tanakh

  1. Former Prophets
    1. Joshua
    2. Judges
    3. Samuel
      1. Sam 1
      2. Sam 2
    4. Kings
      1. Kings 1
      2. Kings 2
  2. Latter Prophets
    1. Isaiah
    2. Jeremiah
    3. Ezekiel
  3. Book of Twelve
    1. Hosea
    2. Joel
    3. Amos
    4. Obediah
    5. Johah
    6. Micah
    7. Nahum
    8. Habakkuk
    9. Zephaniah
    10. Haggai
    11. Zechariah
    12. Malachi
The last part of the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh is the Writings. The Hebrew called this section Kethuvim.

The books of the Kethuvim

  1. Psalms
  2. Proverbs
  3. Job
  4. Song of Songs
  5. Ruth
  6. Lamentation
  7. Ecclesiastes
  8. Esther
  9. Daniel
  10. Ezra
  11. Nehemiah
  12. Chronicles
    1. Chronicles 1
    2. Chronicles 2
Why did I need to know what the Hebrew Tanakh was in order to answer " What are the 72 names of God ?.

The Zohar is a book of commentaries on the Torah. The Zohar is part of the Kabbalah philosophy which jewishvirtuallibrary defines as "Jewish mysticism". Kabbalah.info states that the Zohar is a book of commentaries on the Torah and a guideline for advanced practitioners of Kabbalah who have already advanced along the path of spiritual enlightenment.

Shemhamephorash
Kabbalah
Kabbalah is tradition. It is nearly as old as the religion of Abraham the first Jew who lived in 1800 BC when Judaism starts to manifest itself. Abraham lives in the same period as the powerful and mystical priest king Melchizedek. He is the ruler of Salem, (Ur'Shalem - Ur'el - Ariel - Jer Ur'Shalem, Jerusalem ). Several hundred years later Saul is named King and the Jew is Salem/Jerusalem. Then David, then Solomon and the tribes of Judah are split from the tribes of the Israelites and go north to be eaten up by the Assyrians then the neo Babylonians and the Temple of Solomon on the Mound is no more.
Likely Kabbalah rises in parallel to the philosophy of Abraham and the philosophy of Melchizedek. Kabbalah evolves throughout the ages as a tradition of mystic practices which attempts to harmonize life and the afterlife to the nature of the Universe. Energy is a big thing in the world of the Kabbalist.

Having found out what Kabbalah was and how the Zohar made comments about the Tanakh's Torah and was studied and meditated upon by the Kabbalist to achieve higher levels of soul enlightenment we felt a little closer to answering the question " What are the 72 names of God ? "

The 72 names of God are not actual names we found out as we dug deeper. 

The 72 names of God are also known as the Shem-Hamphorash or Shem-Ha-Mephorasch or some variation of such. Each of the 72 Shemhamphorash is an energy channel which can be tapped into by a trained Kabbalist. To some, this type of playing with the mystical properties of nature is equal to practicing occult ritual. To the Kabbilist it is a method of enlightening the physical by connecting with the soul.

The Torah explicitly condemns occultism or the practice of using divine names for magical purposes that are self serving. Judaism has its own set of names for God and lesser spirits. The Kabbilist mystic has a much more extensive list. There be a major difference between the overman of Salem and the prophet Abraham who meet of the hill of Salem and the adjacent hill where the world of trade is being carried out in the souk by the Meditteranean. Salem's philosophies moves over water and travels the wind of time into the paradigm of distant tribes.

Who is right is opinion and a matter of interpretation of what is divine. 

Being a great Kabbalist is like being a great monk who knows certain secrets about the universe that the rest of us don't. There are great monks in Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Confucionism, Satanism and any other religious "ism". It seems anyone can tap into metaphysical energy fields if they so choose to. The problem with tapping into energies that are supernatural is that they can master us and control us faster than we can control them. Hence the temperament that leads to the exorcists altar. Be careful who you pray to for there is a always a broker trying to push the truth of someone around.

Kabbalist rituals are meant to tap into the paranormal energy of the universe. The Zorah is for use by advanced Kabbalists. Somehow in our modern age everyone other person seems to want to be a priest or priestess ( pick your flavour of Kool Aid and you too can drive the spirit of a religion or philosophy ).

So now we have an answer to " What are the 72 names of God ? ". But we only know the beginning of the story. 

Open Exodus ( the hebrew language one), the second book of the Torah, and you can locate the scriptural passages that are the foundation of the 72 letters within the name of the singular energy. The rest of the story of What are the 72 names of God is better told here. 

72 names of God and other numbers

    

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Resources

Christian OT and Jewish Tanakh

Kabbalah Center

 







Tuesday, 20 March 2012

72 virgins and religious morality

Faustus, Augustine, religious morality, 72 virgins

72 virgins and religious morality

This story looks into the 72 virgins of Islam....it starts with this quote which has been completely used out of context with reality since 2002. The 72 virgins story wouldn't be full without comparing a bunch of other religious philosophy.

_______

In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins. But I am running ahead of things .  link to the article Virgins. What Virgins ?

________

In the end you make up your own mind about the truth. Typos are free...Enjoy!!!

Prophet Mani
Augustine was born in 354 AD in Souk -Ahras which at the time was a market ( Souk ) town near the ancient city of Hippo Regius. This Souk was located on the shores of the Mediterranean sea and across from the island Sardinia. His father was a pagan. His mother was a Christian. The Souk-Ahras was a combination of both. Augustine was like all other adolescent kids and during his youth he partied with the crowd.  He later confessed to having brought a child into the world?.? Augustine is a smart kid and his mind is riddled with the cause and effect of sin and he seeks a philosophy of life that will make him happy. Like his father, he is not baptized.  He joins up with the Manichean religion which had recently been founded by the Persian Mani who came from the the Seleucid area of Persia. Like other potential prophets, Mani claimed to have had divine revelations telling him to teach the true meaning of Christ. He was only 13 years old when his heavenly twin appeared to him and told him to leave his father's gnostic sect. Some years later Mani travels to India then turns his sails towards Afghanistan where he settles in the Zoroastrian influenced court of Shapur I. It isn't certain that Shapur I, second king of the Second Persian Empire, was a convert to Mani's religion but he did tolerate the preacher's desire to spread the word in Western Iran. Mani dedicates some of his writings to his Persian King patron. A few kings later however, Mani is arrested and and dies in prison. King Bahram I had devoted himself to the Zoroastrian revival  of the reformer Katir and outlawed the teachings of Mani.


Doctor of the Church Augustine
Sandro Botticelli
 Manicheaism claimed that the inspired writings  recognized by the Church of God, the Holy Writs were spreading false beliefs. Mani was looking for evidence of the natural scientific mystery of creation. ( sounds a bit like scientology ). Augustine was impressed by this philosophy. The philosophy of Mani was kind of like a Unified Theory of Religion which professed that all religions of the day could be synthesized into one flavour. That flavour of course was Manicheism. Basically Mani philosophy claimed that all ideas stem from two eternal principles : good and evil, the sun and the moon. The Mani philosophy goes that people and societies are materially fused, attached and attracted, isolated or at war, by good or evil deeds and ideas propogated by the two celestial elements. That is my understanding of it.

Salvation by knowledge was the preacher's message. Unlike the myste
rious Christian faith this doctrine claimed to be able to explain all that exists including the genesis of the universe, the composition of it, and the future of it. To the Christian bishops Mani's religion would have be no more than a Gnostic School and by no means a system of Churches, yet they remained tolerant.

Throughout the middle ages the four Doctors of the Christian Church ( Doctores Ecclesiea ) were Augustine, Gregory the Great, Ambrose, and Jerome. They were given this title for their doctrines on religious philosophy which the church elders claimed to be divinely inspired.

In time Augustine renounced his affiliation to the Mani sect. He had never been ordained a priest of Manecheism and his highest rank was that of "auditor". ( reflections of scientology again ). He states as some reason of leaving that he was anything but free spirited in that circle and that he was often disenchanted, depraved and isolated. " They destroy everything and build up nothing" ....they explain nothing of science nor the knowledge of nature and its laws, nor the movement of the stars...." Wait for Faustus " they proclaim when asked, " he will explain everything to you. ". Augustine does get to meet Faustus but is even less impressed with his choice of religion after.

After nine years in the sect, Augustine bumps into Ambrose while in Milan, Italy. From the moment of this meeting to his full conversion three years passed. It took him this long to shake the spirit of Mani from his soul.

Enter Doctor Faustus.....

Doctor Faustus knows all the secrets of nature and he is our chosen healer, so claimed Mani and his followers which grew in numbers for a thousand years mostly in parts of India, China, Tibet, Mesopotamia and other mid east places.

Doctor Faustus was Faustus of Mileve. He was an ordained Bishop within the Manichean bishopry.

Later on in life Augustine mentions Doctor Faustus in his confessions while he is assessing the merits of morality. On this subject, he claims that the Mani sect had no morals and were bent on materialism. For Augustine it was through his conversion to Christianity that he found true freedom and happiness in philosophy. The Christian church loved his message and in time made him a Saint.

Faustus of Mileve meanwhile....

According to Mani and Doctor Faustus, it is possible to refine and perfect the self through rational application of morality..

Rational is the key word here. Rational is a scientific term where sin and damnation are words given to Christian religion. Sin and damnation are the mystery of Christian religion. The Mani sect preached against such hidden meaning and proclaimed that natural science could explain sin and damnation.

That argument continues to this very day. Science continues to explain the psychology which drives humanity. Science also comes up with all kinds of drugs to control the ill effects of nature. It is a bit like Man (i) and Faust are still playing god with reality which is a truth hidden in the dark matter of the time untime machine.

Faust was reintroduced by Goethe who starts writing about the subject back in 177? and continues to improve his sketches until the 1830's. Faust is introduced through a partially printed book then becomes the main character of a two part tragedy play. In the first part of the play Faust sells his soul to the devil and that is the theme of the play. In the second part of the Faust tragedy Goethe goes looking at how people react to social events and compares mysticism to natural phenomena.  Goethe uses the Faust character to enlighten the relationship between mystery and reality. History in the end is just a recording of the way people react psychologically to events that must be dealt with . Morality is the scale of good and evil but where and who dictates the measure of good and evil and are humans really ever capable of shaping themselves according to principles of morality ? Sin is a dirty word. In a world gone mad sin seems easily quantifiable. Rationalizing sin seems the more scientific appraoch to feeling free.

Am I moralizing ?????

Since this is supposed to be about the number 72 then I guess I should qualify 72 virgins as part of this story of morality and rationalizing social behaviour.

Where can one find 72 vested virgins on this preditor infested planet or in the Islamists holy book or it's traditions ( hadiths ).

We mentioned the Persian Mani. Well actually Mani was born in Babylonian territory but who's going to count to 72 on that detail.

Persia is Iran and Iran is Islamist territory. I am no more an Islamist then I am a good Christian and these are just passing thoughts on the mystery of the number 72 so keep an open mind if you read on.

I know that Persia is the hub of the world's oldest civilization and the culture of Iran deserves credit for many of the great things that are part of our library of knowledge today.

One claim is that Persia literally means " land of the Aryans ". That little piece of knowledge is full of religious mystery in itself. Arius was one of the main reasons why councils held meetings in Niceae ( where Hipparchus was born ). Arius was a priest and a Christian who tried to get the bishops to become his disciples. The bishops would have none of it claiming that they were the disciples of only the highest priest which is the lord himself. In Niceae they decided which books of testimony were considered divinely inspired and Arius's testament failed the test. They also decided how the church would proclaim the mass and the affairs of the church. The Nicean creed is still used in many mass rituals today.

Another claim is that Persia is a derivative of Parsua which was the name of an Indo European tribe.

Yet another claim goes that Perses, son of Andromeda and Perseus, is where the name Persia comes from.

Persia was influenced by the philosophical ideas of the Zoroaster for centuries. Zoroaster is a very mysterious prophet on his own and whether he ever existed is legend.

Some people think that Aryanism is a product of Persia and claim that this inscription is proof of that.


I am Darius, the great king, the king of kings
The king of many countries and many people
The king of this expansive land,
The son of Wishtaspa of Achaemenid,
Persian, the son of a Persian,
'Aryan', from the Aryan race

"From the Darius the Great's Inscription in Naqshe-e-Rostam"


Darius I was King of Persia in about 500 BC. He was a member of the Achaemenid royal family and by legend of the bloodline of Acheamenes. Whether or not Acheamenes really lived is also legend. One such legend goes that Acheamenes was raised by an eagle and becomes chief of the Pasargadea tribe. His mother was an Ethiopian Queen named Andromeda and his father was Perseus, son of Zeus.

Regardless of the true nature of the players in this Faustian reality play the fact remains that Darius I conquers territory by defeating the son of  Cyrus the Great who became Shah ( King ) of the Acheamenid Empire or First Persian Empire after defeating the Median Empire overlords.

Today's Iran is more Islamist that Aryan or Zoroastrian ( I don't think Iran is tolerant on other religions ) and that happened about the same time as the Muslims conquered Persia back in 651 AD. Prophet Mohammad, messenger of God had received his revelation from the archangel Gabriel who in part told him how to restore an uncorrupted monotheistic faith. Prophet Mohammad died in 632 AD.

Islam
The Muslims who followed the Islamist Qu'ran brought the religion with them into the territory they had recently conquered. ( Now if you are a Mormon you will definitely not like the fact that Muslims believe their prophet to be the last prophet - such a claim states that Joseph Smith is a fraud and all followers of LDS are slightly bent and likely candidates for conversion - " complete surrender to Him is the only way " ??????. )   Granted the message of the Qu'ran could be interpreted as saying that Prophet Muhammad is to be the last prophet of the Islamist. The list of prophets named in the Qu'ran starts with Adam, then Enoch, Noah,..........Jesus.....and the last prophet is Muhammad.

Interpretation is a little like predicting the future or telling the truth about the past. Everything in both direction is lost in the fog of time.

The Qu'ran is where we find the 72 virgins. Or do we ???

"Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34)

That is what the Qu'ran says about pure women waiting in heaven for the righteous Islamist who serves Allah while on Earth.

"The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."  Sunan Hadith 2562 of Iman al-Tirmidhi


The idea of 72 virgins in heaven waiting for a Jihad warrior started with this quote

In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins. But I am running ahead of things .  link to the article Virgins. What Virgins ?  which also states...

"They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."


Here are some places that mention 72 pure companions for those who fight the cause of Allah and his prophet......

Muslims are offered a palace; in it are 72 mansions with 72 homes with 72 sheets on 72 beds with 72 virgins that never lose their virginity. Mohammed said, “The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed).” (Al Bukhari vol. 1:35.) “They [true believers] will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches” (Sura 37:48). This gives us insight into their denial of this life and being rewarded in the next. The promise of heaven to those who die in battle for the cause of Allah is quite a promise. Let us Reason




Monday, 19 March 2012

People associated with the pentagon

pentagon attacked exactly 60 years after groundbreaking in 1941
There are all types of people associated with the pentagon.

Any five sided polygon is considered a pentagon. The word pentagon contains the pente word of the Greek which they used to signify 5. Poly means many. The Greeks used Gonia to mean angle. So a pentagon has five angles.

A regular pentagon has five equal angles of 108 degrees. The points of these angles are set on an order of 5 along a 360 degree circle.

Point 1 is at 0. Point 2 is at 72 degrees. Point 3 is at 144 degrees. Point 4 is at 288 degrees. The number 72 is the common factor of the five points of a regular pentagon where all sides are the same length.

That is kind of interesting. The pentagon belongs to that area of numbers called geometry.

Greek people associated with the pentagon....

Geometry is a another one of those words that the Greeks brought to life when the made earth measurements. Geo being to earth what metry is to measurement. The Greeks were not the first to measure the earth for political reasons or for scientific reasons but the Greeks are the first to have sent records of their knowledge of geometry down the influential tube of history. Since the earliest of times geometry has been used to measure all types of objects both on earth and in the universe.

Babylonian people associated with the pentagon...

The Greek Euclid was a big name in the advancement of geometry. Euclid lived in the 3rd century BC. Another Greek living about 100 years after Euclid was named Hipparchus of Nicaea. Hipparchus was a scientific type who spent a lifetime gaining knowledge of geometry, astronomy, mathematics, astrology and more. Hipparchus had likely studied the numbers systems of the Chaldeans of Babylonia and used is knowledge of the power of 60 numbers system to map the sky. It is believed that Hipparchus figured out the precession of the equinoxes cycle of time that comes to be referred to as the Platonic Year but that is information on this subject died with him. He is also the Greek who introduced trigonometry to the world.

Trig is measurement by triangulation and is a branch of geometry.

Roman people associated with the pentagon...

It is a guess on my part but I suspect that the people who helped Julius Caesar reinvent the old Roman calendar likely knew of the work of Hipparchus. The Julian calendar comes along as a method of stopping the corruption amongst high priests who are the authorities behind the extra days that need to be added to the old Roman calendar in order to keep it keeping time with the equinoxes and the change of seasons.

French people associated with the pentagon...

Most tof the world today operates on a calendar that replaced the Julian calendar. That reformation of the Julian calendar comes in the years when Rene Descartes is living. Rene the Cartesian was also a big numbers guy and comes along in the early 1600's with another branch of geometry. Descartes introduced  " analytical geometry " which is a bridge between algebra and geometry. Algebra meanwhile had been thought up back in about 200 AD by the father of algebra Diophantus who lived in Alenxandria.

Galeleo - father of modern science
In the days of Euclid the numbers guys used what is termed " geometric algebra " which is completely different than algebra and the equations of algebra proposed by Diophantus. Geometric algebra is a relatively new term introduced in hte 1900's and that type of numeration is still used extensively in fields that require intuitive thinking of abstract domain such has are found in quantum mechanics, spacetime relativity, etc....

The pentagon is interesting in that in plays on the factor 72 in five sided equal angles. The precession of the equinoxes is interesting because a full 360 rotation of this zodiac is a process that moves along one degree at a time every 72 years.

Rene Descartes is interesting in that he comes along at a time when the high priests are arguing about what religion should be and who should be in charge of the heavenly agency.

Religious, Polish, and Italian people associated with the pentagon....

A hundred years or so before Descartes the world had witnessed the invention of the printing press and the beginning of mass ( not the church type ) production. Mass ( the church type ) production was the argument that sent heretics to their grave.

Women teaching geometry and the knowledge of Euclid
Copernicus, a Doctor by trade and an avid astromomer by obsession had worked out the heliocentric nature of the universe but wasn't in a hurry to make his theory public. When he did begin to mention his ideas about how the earth was not the center of the Universe it was the Protestants who scourned him for his heretic behaviour. Copernicus was simply restating a theory that Hipparchus likely knew in 300 BC or thereabouts. The Catholics heard about Copernicus's heliocentric cosmology theory in 1533 through Johann Widmannsletter and were at least interested in what the Doctor was proposing.

Copernicus died of stroke related complications and not by the execution order of a witch hunter.

Copernicus the Polock inspired the Italian Galeleo Galilei who improves on the telescope and becomes the father of modern science. His contemporary astronomers did not take to his Copernicanism ideas of heliocentricity and the Catholic church made an about face on their treatment of the subject. The Catholic church put Galeleo under house arrest for the rest of his life. Interestingly the Jesuits were siding with Galeleo and were also distanced from the Holy see. So much for being the " right " hand of the divine law !!!! Right or wrong, when it comes to subjective sometimes you are always wrong even if you are right....at least until nature by it's divine choirs comes to right the objective.

Somehow all people are associated with the pentagon....



70 or 72 disciples sent out by Jesus

Were there 70 or 72 disciples sent out by Jesus ?

We find the information about the sending out of messengers in Luke's gospel under Luke 10:1.


  1. The Wycliffe Bible states - Forsooth after these things, the Lord Jesus ordained also other seventy and two, and sent them by two and two before his face into every city and place
  2. The New International Version states - After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.
  3. New King James version - After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.
We are told that they are sent out in pairs but are there 35 pairs or 36 ?

Ezekiel's vision
In a book called Birth Angels which focuses on the 72 angels of the Kabbalah we read " the two plus seventy disciples sent out by Jesus ".

Who are the seventy and who are the two ?

The Kaballah teaches that there are 72 angels who inhabit the nine divine Choirs of the hierarchical tree of life.

If the following can be applied to the Kaballah line above then there is confusion as to what can be considered Angel.  By typical Christian Angel hierachy angels belong to the most common choir and are the lowest divine entities on the ladder of higher spirit.

The Kaballah line above would have more meaning to me if it read " 72 entities or 72 spirits...".

Orders of Angels also known as Angelic Choirs are a common theme in Christian Angel hierarchy. One such hierarchy goes like this.

There are 3 spheres of angels and each sphere has types of angels

  1. Sphere one
    1. Seraphim - choir that sings by the almighty's side
    2. Cherubim - guardians of the tree of life and guardians of the garden of eden
    3. Ophanim - living elders who who occupy the throne of divine justice
  2. Sphere two
    1. Dominions - the bosses of the lower angel choirs
    2. Virtues  - guardian choir that stands behind the ophanim and keep nature and the cosmos in divine order
    3. Powers - this choir is the Authority behind mankind 
  3. Sphere three
    1. Primcipalities (Rulers)  - carry out the orders of the Dominions 
    2. Archangels - Gabriel and Michael are archangels - princes ( Hebrew - sar ) among the lower angels
    3. Angels - messengers to mankind highly connected to living things


Genesis 10 of the old Testament names the seventy nations.


Gustave Dore - Depiction of Satan - Milton's Paradise Lost
 The Hebrew Testament of Naphtali mentions, He.." came down from his highest heavens, and brought down with him seventy ministering angels, Michael at their head. He commanded them to teach the seventy families who sprang from the loin of Noah seventy languages."

I am still not quite sure what to make of this 70 or 72 disciples sent out by Jesus topic.

When I refer it to Luke 10 1 it seems like the disciples are human and not angelic. I could easily speculate that there were 70 followers of Jesus who were chosen to go and spread the word of his coming. As for the two others I can guess that Jesus could be one. The other could be either the archangel Michael or even Satan.

Why Satan ?

Line 17 of Luke 10 might be a clue. " And the seventy turned back with joy, saying, " Sir, the demons are being subjected to us in thy name. ".  And he says back to the seventy, " I was beholding the Adversary, as lightning from the heaven having fallen. "  Then he tells them that nothing will hurt them because he has given to them the authority to thread on the enemy as though  they were serpents or scorpions. ( authority is from the choir of powers ) .

In the last line he tells the 70 that their names were written in heaven ( the powers are also the historians and keepers of records ) and that the spirits are subjected to them or on their side.

The Naphtali testament would completely falsefy my own assessment. But then again I don't think the Naphtali testament and the gospel of Luke have anything in common. Naphtali was the son of Jacob and  Jacob's story is dated to about 600 BC when the Neo Babylonians are preparing to overthrow the Israelites. Jacob reaches out to Laban the Aramaic and ends up an enemy of the man who is also is father in law. Jacob marries both is daughters Leah and Rachel. ( If you are a Mormon you would understand this story to be quite different since Laban ends up being slaughtered by Nephi the son of Lehi as they struggle for the idols Urim and Thurrim and the real records of the Israelite tribes ). In other Christian versions no one knows exactly how Laban dies. All we are told is that Jacob and Rachel raised Naphtali who grows up to form an Israelite tribe.


This somehow is an interpretation of the birth of Naphtali.

The testimony of Naphtali had to be speaking of a completely different order of entities than the gospel of Luke was. The gospel of Luke was written sometime after 33 AD.

Were there 70 or 72 disciples sent out by Jesus ?

Your guess is as good as mine !!!! Seventy nations with seventy languages with seventy human rulers all at the mercy of Jesus and Satan sounds reasonable.

The number 72 is full of mystery. This 72 mystery about disciples and angels is far from resolved in my mind yet I now know a bit more about Luke and about spiritual entities. I remain confused about the reality of the LDS church but the history of the Mormon flavour of Christianity has never been more interesting than it is in our times when a few mere mortals are climbing the ladder of power in America.

Mother always said " don't mix religion with politics...it brings out the devil in people ".

But can one really ever separate religion from politics ?????

Interestingly enough Confucius who lived at about the same time as Naphtali and Jacob also had 72 disciples.


Confucius had 72 disciples

Yes, it is said that Confucius had 72 disciples.

As a group these followers of the old Chinese sage came to be known as " the 72 sainted disciples of Confucius ".

I guess to know who these gurus were one has to know a bit about Confucius.



Confucius

 Confucius was born in the country of Lu in the province of Shang Ping. He was born on June 19, 551BC and he was given the name Kong. With age Kong became a master and earned the reputaton of Kong-Fu-Tse. Both of his parents were passed on by the time he was 23. Kong had married at 19 but divorced around the time of the death of his mother which he later buried in the ways of the ancient. Her name was Yan and the burial ceremony revived the ways of the ancient for many who witnessed it. He was an avid learner and in solitude he meditated on philosophical matters and pursued the knowledge of the ancient masters for the rest of his life . Some of those ancient masters include the legendary Yao and Shun who were amongst the first to civilize the country. His teachings were often moral statements which had the power to reform individual and nation if taken seriously.

At least 72 people took Confucius very seriously for Confucius had 72 disciples.

When did Kong-Fu-Tse become Confucius ?


Society of Jesus Insignia

Jesuit priests like Matteo Ricchi and Adam Schall von Bell were amongst the first brothers of the society of Jesus who went to China. The SJ had been founded in Spain by Ignatius of Loyola back in 1534 at a time when the Catholic Church was confronting Martin Luther who had lit the spirit of the religious Protesters. This was also the age when Botticelli was painting for the church and when a doomsday preacher named Savonarola burns idles of sin in a Bonfire of the Vanities. Botticelli is caught up between paganism and Christianity. Savonarola like Luther is excommunictated. The Jesuits were the right hand military enforcers of the Catholic Church. By 1579 the Society of Jesus brotherhood was in China on a mission to learn the ways of the cultured Chinese and to translate their knowledge for the people of the Western world. These Jesuits Latinized Kong Fu Tse to Confucius.

Someone said that the ancient Chinese saw magic in the number 72. Did they really ?

Interestingly enough Naphtali the son of Jacob also spoke of 72 angels and Jesus sent out 70 or 72 disciples.